4x thoughtseize
4x tidehollow sculler
4x bitterblossom
4x nantuko husk
4x kitchen finks
4x spectral procession
3x murderous redcap
3x ajani goldmane
3x grave pact
3x profane command
4x fetid heath
4x caves of koilos
4x windbrisk heights
8x swamps
4x plains
Sideboard
4x oblivion ring (enchantments and planeswalkers)
4x fulminator mage (4-5c/control)
4x condemn (manlands/white weanie)
3x ??? (runed halo? wispmare? infest? distress?)
Wow. I was messing around with my decllist today and I remembered two cards: tidehollow sculler, and reveillark. Then, whilst contemplating the pros and cons of reveillark, I remembered how I can do better than that: profane command. For the same five mana it costs for reveillark I can kill an opponents creature and get a finks back from the yard. For six mana I can give my husk and his token friends fear and get back a flitter from the yard. That's pretty much game. And oh yeah, it hits people in the face for "x" late game. Solid, solid, solid and solid.
Early game is control like only b/w can offer: thoughtseize and sculler help ensure my opponent has to topdeck answers to bitterblossom, husk, ajani, etc. After turn three I go all out, saving a spectral procession to reload after a board wipe, but applying so much pressure my turn five sees my opponet hurting. Turn six is my win turn. If I can't win turn six, I play one threat at a time and go the distance with bitterblossom tokens and life gain. If I drew grave pact, I will win the game with bitterblossom + ajani. But hopefully I win turn six or seven most games.
I feel real good about my maindeck. I feel less good about the sideboard. Suggestions? Comments?
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24 comments:
condemn in the board?
unmake??
(I know you may not be able to get this card but:
-1 ajani
-1 Profane Command
+2 Elspeth
Profane is much better than reveillark in the build. Not sure about the Paladin's sideboard. Condemn is better for you than wrath, let your opponent stress over what to do with your out crittering them - not sure there isn't something more fun to do sideboard though (will take some reall thought)
I worry about trading ajani for elspeth, ajani you know is in and of itself a 2 way win condition and helps mitigate the life loss from thoughtseize, bitterblossom. Where as elspeth's final ability doesn't automatically scream I win - where as a huge threat with fear from profane might.
Paladins don't really have a purpose, if you don't have stillmoons - I say play voice of all if you play a pro-color card at all.
I might consider extra discard in sideboard incase you come across heavy burn or direct damage and you need to get their card count down fast (even if you don't having not only creature advantage but reverse card advantage is great too, get rid of the issue before it becomes one. i.e. don't worry about a new creature to protect, worry about protecting the one's you have)
Condemn is good. I should -4 wrath +4 condemn, probably. It is especially good vs. man lands.
Yeah, I'm working around not having Elspeth as a possibility. Ajani is strickly better because of his -1 ability is so good with my tokens, and it keeps ensuring finks will persist. Elspeth is good because she makes tokens, which is what my deck does, but also she makes a nantuko husk +3/+3 and evasive, which pretty much guarantees a big winning swing. But she costs $25, and i dont see me getting any, unless someone trades them, but i'm not counting on them.
I agree with the paladin. He is no stillmoon. I could see voice of all, or even better runed halo.
I could fit in distress or even noggin whack, i'll have to consider that. If i knew there was a lot of red players at fnm i'd go that route for sure
Things I might consider if you are running into lots of removal.
this might be dumb but what about recover - 2B return creature from graveyard to hand and draw a card?
You get a marsh flitter, nantuko, or tidehollow back plus a card draw?
Cenn's Enlistment - 3W, get 2 1/1 kithkin into play, with retrace (late game you don't need much mana, except for profane, and can turn every land into 2 creatures)
Restless apparition - www/bbb 2/2 persist with pay www/bbb get +3/3, so when it comes back it is still potentially a real threat itself.
If you are going more board removal
might consider
Cemetary Puca - 1bb/uu 1/2 creature with, when a creature is put into the graveyard pay 1 and puca becomes a copy of that creature with this ability - copy their big threats and use them against them. (even if you aren't killing their creatures this is a way to copy the abilities of any creature you may have, unfortunately you only have one worth copying - husk, because the come into play and leave play don't work cause he didn't come into play and loses the ability when he leaves play)
that's all I could think of so far, it's pretty solid and hard to tweak main deck.
instead of noggin whack why not mind rot, more garaunteed? not as good as stuppor in TS but best you can do for 2B.
oh the anti-self card - batwing brume 1 b/w prevent all combat damage if w was spent, each player loses 1 life for each attacking creature they control.
so if he swings with more than a couple creatures looking for the win, only to find pain and disappointment, muhahaha.
Good points. I am glad you guys like my maindeck. I think condemn in the board was good. O-ring is good if i see bitterblossoms or planeswalkers. mage is good vs control. i need a 3 of something now. discard?
for a 3 of in this you dont want discard, you want draw.
You want it to work well with your deck.
You want it to not mess up your colors.
You want it to be recursive so that you can get multiple cards out of it.
you want it to work well with gravepact.
if you dont know what card Im talking about yet, ask.
The only thing I am thinking of couldn't be what you're thinking of. I'm thinking of the artifact that costs three, and tap and pay two and sac a creature and draw a card. You'll have to tell me.
I did like the idea of discard, though, because it will help vs. control. I feel like I can pwn aggro alright, but control/enchantments are hard to deal with. Which means o-rings for enchantments (and planeswalkers), fulminator mage will be absolutely brutal (think of it...turn one thoughtseize, turn two tidehollow sculler, turn three fulminator mage...control won't know what hit them). Condemn for quick aggro/figure of destiny/man lands. My three of slot could be the bbx discard card. I can't imagine a draw card good enough to be in the sideboard but not maindeck--i'm waiting to find out what that one is. Cause I still need three cards for my board.
However, I have decided to seriously consider -3 marsh flitter +3 murderous redcapp. The synergy with ajani, i can still get a +4/+4 husk and three damage to my opponent, and it gives me more versatility with limited targeted removal. I've convinced myself it is better. So I'm going to alter my decklist to the most recent considerations.
i know cenn's elistment is kinda a bad card, but I could see it being a three of in my board if the meta is lots of mass removal. I am thinking the meta is three color aggro/control (which I'm geared up to destroy), five-color control (which I sideboard into pwnage) and then...well, I don't know? Mono-red? I don't have much of a response to that, except with finks and ajani to gain me life.
I need 3x caves of koilos, 4x fetid heath, 3x windbrisk heights (should I be playing this card, and should i be playing four of them?) and 2x tidehollow sculler.
I have good things to trade. Anyone?
Phyrexian Vault is exactlywhat I was thinking of here actually.
oh, you were needing three of in the SB, my bad.
Masticore?
I don't know if I'm on board with murderous redcap instead of marsh flitter, I like more threats on the board over weak removal/control, if you still don' like marsh flitters I would even take a restless appartion for 3 that can pump to something scary and persists over the murderous at a 4 cost.
I like angel song for a 3 of sideboard, it is useful if you some how are getting tramplers at your face or out creatured but still capable of a damage win if they would only swing at you, it might buy that turn if it came from side board and they weren't expecting it (or batwing) and if you find you don't need it after pulling it from sideboard you can use it to cycle for draw (a win win in my mind, it fills slots to get you to 60 but really doesn't count as a card because it cycles out of your way).
Hmmm...yah, I don't see vault coming in from the board. I don't think I have the draw to play masticore. And I may completely regret it, but I feel like condemn is enough sb space to give V's aggro, because I feel like I can already deal with aggro. I want a sideboard option for that deck that is hard to beat. I don't know what that is. Maybe puppeteer/mannequin/reveillark? I could add +3 relic of progentius (sp?) or +3 beckon apparition to deal with graveyard stuff. The artifact might be a better answer since it removes both players entire graveyards, and can draw me a card. But it sits out there in plain sight, giving my opponents a chance to work around it. Beckon apparition on the other hand, is instant speed, spoils mannequin, and is virtual card advantage in the form of a 1/1 spirit token, and it's cheaper to play. It only gets one card, but it also leaves my GY there for profane command.
Am I forgetting a better remove stuff from the GY for B/W?
Here's my argumentfor redcap vs marsh flitter.
Same mana cost. Tie.
Marsh flitter creates to more tokens than red cap. Winner: marsh flitter
But red cap comes in dealing two damage. And if I sac to husk it totals +4/+4 and three damage wherever I want it, as opposed to husk +6/+6. So I gain 1 damage with red cap. Advantage red cap.
Flitter flies. Advantage flitter.
Picture this: turn five, I have bitterblossom, husk, and ajani in play. I play red cap dealing two damage, then sac to husk, dealing another damage. Then I add a +1/+1 counter to all my guys and they gain vigilance until eot. I then sac red cap again, and he comes back dealing another damage. I can then sac him a third time. Four mana and my husk is +6/+6 and I just cleared a 4/4 creature, or three small creatures, or did four damage to my opponent. Advantage red cap.
I'm not sure but I don't think +1/1 counters removes the -1/1 counter on persist creatures, it is a creature with both a -1/1 counter and a +1/1 counter on it, yes it effectively cancels in terms of power, but as far as the persist mechanic I don't think you get your red cap back, but I'll read the comprehensive rules here in a second and check
nope you're right, I guess I always thought it wasn't a removal or replacement, but apparently they interchange places by removing the lower integer form the higher.
"If a permanent has both a +1/+1 counter and a -1/-1 counter on it, N +1/+1 and N -1/-1 counters are
removed from it, where N is the smaller of the number of +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters on it. This is a statebased
effect; see rule 420.5n."
They created the rule regarding +1/+1 -1/-1 counters in order to simplify the playing field. It would be way to hard to keep up with the counters without them removing each other.
anti-reveilark/puppets card?
how about wheel of sun and moon?
That's original. I hadn't considered it, but it sure does work, doesn't it?
How long are you going to be in town?
It does work, You really want it turn 2 though.
Im leaving the 22nd
good luck on your trip D., you going to be in touch?
Yea, Ill have the interwebs. so Ill still be in touch.
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